Leaping Into the Life You Love: An Interview with Janice MacLeod, Author of Paris Letters
Janice MacLeod is the author of Paris Letters, a memoir in which she leaves her comfortable life in Los Angeles to go to Europe, where she falls in love, becomes an artist, and makes a life in Paris. She’s an inspiration to women who are craving a more adventurous life which is why I reached out to speak with her.
Carrie: I wanted to start the conversation off from the beginning. In your book, you were living in California and decided to go to Paris. Can you take me through the process of making that decision? What kind of fears were you having during that time? I think that by hearing your story, it will be inspirational for others to learn from the highs, but also learn from what some of the fears, so that they could overcome them.
Janice: Oh, I know. First of all, when I started the journey, it came from a new year’s resolution of me wanting to just write in my journal every day, I didn’t think it would lead to quitting my job. But then it started occurring to me, as I was writing in my journal, “If I want all the things that I say I want in the journal, then the job doesn’t come with those. But it was just unfathomable, unfathomable to be able to quit my job there. I was just too scared, too scared about the whole idea.
But as time went on, it did get easier. And then fury, thank goodness for fury. Fury arrived. And a few things happened, things were building up at work. Fair enough. That happens, especially when you’ve got an exit plan in your mind, certain things bug you, you cant let things go. And then, my car died on the freeway. And I thought I could die coming home from work. And that just infuriated me. And I felt like I had to stop.
And I had other factors, you know, just little things like oh, family, we’re coming for Christmas, so I wanted to hang out with them. And I couldn’t get Christmas vacation off and that annoyed me, but you know what? I’m going to quit before Christmas, then I don’t have to worry about getting my vacation off. Fury fueled it. So, it is hard to quit, and it’s really hard to just go into that office with your resignation letter and say, I want to quit my job…
It’s hard. But I remember going into the office, knowing that I was going to come out of the office, I will be getting out of the office, and I will be going home, I will get in my car. And so, after I go in this office, I will be getting in my car at the end of the day, and this moment of my life is going to be done. I don’t have to stay; I’m not going to be held captive in this moment, this moment will end. So that helped in the actual moment. And then it was bad, and we yelled and it was way worse than I expected it to be. It was just awful. It was just awful. But anyway, we could have done better. I could have done better. My boss could have done better. We could have done better. And we have since discussed it — only in recent times, 10 years later. We could have done better.
Janice: I think there are some regrets on both ends, just not keeping your cool. But you know, I was fueled by fury.
If it’s scary now, it’s because it’s not supposed to happen now. And it’s not going to be scary at the moment you have to actually do it. It’ll be a little scary, but not impossibly scary, that’s me summing it up.
Carrie: Yes. Was there a process that you had to go through in order to get to that point where could say, “I need to quit”?
Janice: Yeah, yeah. And it was just the daily journal writing, at the time… You can’t hide from yourself when you’re writing to yourself in your journal. And of course, Julia Cameron talks about this in her book, The Artist’s Way. And that’s where I got the idea. But she says you can’t hide, you can’t hide from it, you’re going to have to face that page. And that page is going to keep telling you, you’ve got to do this, you got to do that, you can’t keep doing this anymore, you can’t keep doing that.
So, there was a natural plan that started to come together, page by page. And it wasn’t, I’m going to quit and go live in Paris and find the love of my life and create an online business and write books. It was little things: I’m going to just clean out this drawer today, I‘m going to clean out that pantry tomorrow, and we’re going to see where that leads. Because Paris or not, I still had to clean out some stuff.
Carrie: Yeah, that makes sense. We don’t need to have the whole thing figured out. We just need to listen to the inner voice and ask what’s the next thing that I need to do?
Janice: That’s what it is. Yeah. And that inner voice for me showed up on the page. It shows up for other people in meditation classes, going for long walks. And, of course, it does for me in those instances, too. But in my case, the page was the best guidance there could be.
Sometimes during that time, I also found that time could be spent doing the thing that the pages are telling you to do. So, there is some shifting to that… I do find myself going to sit down — but, the pages are telling me to get on the computer and open the manuscript, you’re running out of time. And then the page has happened much later in the day, because that thing had to kind of get out, so I don’t keep repeating in my journal, “I’ve got to do that thing. I’ve got to do that thing. I’ve got to do that thing.”
Carrie: That makes total sense. The pages are showing you that you’re constantly going around that same wheel. And then the pages tell you what it is that you need to do, right?
Janice: Yes.
Carrie: That’s really insightful. So when you were making your decision, did you get any pushback from other people when you were starting to talk about this decision? And how did you deal with that?
Janice: Oh, well, the most pushback was somewhat my own self in a way because I felt like I should want these things. I remember when I bought my first car, it was a four-door. Because I thought, I am going to have this car for five years. Clearly, I’m going to be getting married and have a kid in that time. I mean, I was so young. And of course, that didn’t happen. But you know, I had this expectation coming into the world after I was all done with school, getting my first job, having a little bit of money in my pocket, thinking, “Okay, next stage, let’s go!” And then it wasn’t happening. And it wasn’t happening. And it wasn’t happening. And I kind of had to break up with my invisible boyfriend, like divorce my invisible husband saying, “You know what, you’re not here. I’m looking around for you… Yeah, you’re not here. I’m breaking up with you, and I’m going to go do my own thing.”
And then I got into some feminists… I’ve always had a feminist slant, because my mom was a really hard-working woman, and I just thought, well, make decisions on life based on what a straight white man would do. Just there, they get to just do what they want, and not have any expectation that it should be this, this and this and this, so I’m just going to do that. I’m just going to look at this and go, “You know what? This thing, this idea I had in my head isn’t happening.” I even sold my car to an ex-boyfriend. Isn’t that funny? Yeah, yeah, we met for lunch. And I’m like, “Yeah, I’m going to sell this car. I’m going to go to Europe.” And he was like, “I like this car. I’ll buy this car from you” I’m like, “You’ve got yourself a deal.” There you go. And he did the paperwork. He dropped me off at my coffee shop and took off. And then I got a ride to the airport. And then I left!
Carrie: Kind of that simple. I think a lot of women have this idea too of falling in love with someone and then moving to a city because of that. It was kind of the opposite. It’s just like, I’m going to go to a city and then let the things that I want kind come to me.
Janice: Oh, yeah, I ended up in LA because I followed a boy there. Yeah, so believe me when I tell you, I know. Obviously, that didn’t work out. But we are Facebook friends. It’s all you can ask for today it seems.
Carrie: Haha! So, what helps you know you are making the ‘right’ decisions?
Janice: Well, you do wonder, you know, all the decisions you make, and if they are the right decisions. Yes, and no, I guess you just keep making decisions until you’re comfortable in a situation. It could have been really great living in LA, and I never would have went to Paris or it could have been bad and I just came back and moved into my mom’s basement, who knows? But you can correct — this is what I want to say — you can correct your decisions, you can correct yourself if it’s not working. If you made a really bad move, then you can correct it, you can change your mind. We forget, we forget! Even if you get like a two-year phone contract, that’s nerve-racking. But you know, you could break a contract, which is what I’ve done, because I’m like, “I’m leaving the country. I’m going to break this contract.” We’re so afraid. People are so afraid to change, to pivot out of what they thought they should be doing. Or a great decision that turned out to be not a great decision, change your mind. Change your mind. You’ve got to live with light feet.
Carrie: Yeah, absolutely! Did you have that mindset when you were leaving LA?
Janice: No, no, I did not have that mindset when I was leaving LA. Only wisdom and time have brought me to that realization. I did not have that. But I always had a plan… I always had options. I always, in my head, had options.
At that moment. When I was leaving LA, I thought first, I’m going to go to Europe to check it out, hang out there. But plan B is to come back and truly live with my family and babysit my nieces. And maybe even go back to advertising in Toronto, which is kind of the biggest major center here for advertising. So I thought I could do that. I could do that. And if that doesn’t work out…I did kind of want to stay in Italy after I went to Europe. I thought, Italy is so lovely and Rome is so fantastic.
So I kind of had that in the back of my mind. But by then, I’d met the lovely Christophe, and so I continued on to Italy. I met Christophe in Paris and then did come back to Paris. But even with Christophe, I had options. If it turns out badly, he can just go to work and I’m going to shut the door behind me, and I’m going to get on the metro and I’m going to go to the airport and I’m going to get on a plane and I’m going to leave. I can do that. Like, it is nice to know that I can do that. I don’t even have to break up with him. I don’t care. But yeah, if it’s bad I just go.
And knowing that I could just go and live a life with light feet has been awesome. Even getting mortgages. I can just stop. I don’t have to pay off the thing. I just end it. So yeah, at that moment, I thought I’m either going to go to Paris to start, go round Europe, hopefully, end up in Italy somewhere. Or I’ll go babysit my nieces in Canada, which, I mean is awesome too, because they’re the best. But those are my options and figure it out from there, then that’s as far as I got, as far as figuring things out. I mean, I’m glad… I never would have thought that I would have stayed in Paris. I never thought it, never thought it. And the lovely Christophe, there he is.
Carrie: Yeah, absolutely. To me, the story is about movement, and following whatever the next step is. I love how open you were to the experience and whatever was going to happen.
Janice: Oh, yeah. And even I thought, I had also gone through enough heartbreak, and enough disappointment in that regard, to be kind of like, “If it doesn’t work with Christophe, it doesn’t work… if he breaks up with me, then I go, whatever, right, whatever, I’ll just go.” And it’s very freeing. And it’s very freeing to be able to do that. My friend Jeff, who’s in the book in the thank you section. He said, “Okay, you just moved in with a man who has very sharp knives. I will leave LA & I will come and get you. I’m concerned, and I will come and get you.” And even though I could have just left and didn’t need Jeff, just knowing that somebody would do that was like, “Oh, yeah, I can just go.”
Carrie: Yeah. You’re very resourceful, right? As a traveler, it’s a kind of resourcefulness that we have. You’ve got to be smart, but also sometimes just jump into the experience and say yes?
Janice: Yes. And knowing where your passport is and your bank card, and your ID. And also, living out of a suitcase, I had one suitcase and a backpack that I was living out of and knowing you could just leave all of it there, all of it. Even the computer, just leave it all. I could just walk away. But it’s scary to do that, of course. And I didn’t have to get so dramatic about it. But you practice these skills and this is what traveling had taught me. Plus, I’d seen a lot of Rick Steves on PBS while I was in LA saving up money. And I was like, “Oh, travel skills with Rick Steves. Tell me, Rick Steves, how do I travel?” I am not kidding you. I was like, every night PBS, Rick Steves. He’s great.
Carrie: I want to ask you a little bit about the time when you were saving as well because I think that that’s the hardest part about taking a leap of faith is saving for it. What would you say to people who want to make this leap, but saving up the finances is hard to even fathom?
Janice: First of all, I had a professional job where I was making money, and I made a lot of choices in order to become a copywriter, and being a copywriter does pay. So that’s one thing that was in my favor. But of course, it was all my own decisions that got me to that place. But before that, I still hadn’t saved it. I just spend it on stuff. God, honestly, there was no hard part about it — there was no feeling of I’m missing out. I cannot believe I admit this, but it’s true. Like, when I would say no to friends who wanted to hang out, but I didn’t really want to hang out with them, and I would say, “No, I can’t, I’m busy.” But I was really like not wanting to spend that 50 bucks on that meal. It felt freeing, and also giving up some art supplies. I just thought, “Okay, well, why don’t we just get real about this, I am never going to finish this, I am never finishing this art project, let’s just not spend all of our time going to art supply stores,” because that was the verb “shopping,” as opposed to the art. So I just got real about that. And that felt freeing too, just to be let off the hook for not doing this art that I thought would be fun. But I discovered very quickly that it was kind of boring — not my thing. Books that I thought I’d read again, let’s just be real, get rid of them all.
So my life became very quiet, kind of monastic, in a way. Sonia Choquette says in her book, Your Heart’s Desire. She said you have to create a garden, you have to put a fence around your garden, and you have to weed your garden and really care for your garden. And that’s what I felt like I was doing, I was just keeping people out of my garden that would damage it. I felt like this is a very sacred space that I’m creating, and I want to spend time in this space and not spend time trying to make friends. It helped that I knew I was leaving at some point, so I didn’t feel the need to nurture relationships that I knew weren’t going to go anywhere. And that was where most of my extra money went, was to these dinners; dinners out, drinking out, meeting somebody, and having a bite to eat here and there and everywhere. I just brought that really close to home. And I still felt very social. I found there were certain people that it worked with, like my coffee shop people, they all had just coffee in the morning. And that was awesome. I didn’t feel deprived, oddly enough, when I sat and looked at what I was spending money on and said, I’m not going to do it. And it worked. And then you kind of get scrappy, where can I make money? I got to do my taxes. I wonder if I’ll get a return? You know, all that stuff.
Janice: I still do that. I still get scrappy about it. It’s still a hobby in my pages. It’s like what can I do to get where I want to go?
Carrie: Yeah. Is that where the Etsy store came from?
Janice: Yeah. I was just writing letters about Paris and I was painting on them and painting with watercolors because that’s the only thing that would fit my bag. And then that became the medium, which is the Paris letters. And I did them every month, and I had 20 subscribers the first few months, and I thought, “Oh, this is super awesome. I’m the richest person in the world. I have 20 subscribers.” I did. And they were all people I knew. I really felt like I have a deposit, instead of a withdrawal. That’s the best feeling ever. How can I get 20 more? How can I get 20 more? How can I get 20 more? And just keep going, going, going. And it led to of course, to the memoir, and then it led to the travel journal. And then this book, which is the new book, which is coming out next week, which is all the Paris letters, 140 Paris letters.
Carrie: So where can people now find you? Where can people find a little bit more about you?
Janice: So officially, the third book comes out on March 9. And I say officially because some people have ordered it online and already got it in the last few days. So it’s coming out on March 9 worldwide. And it is a delight. The hardcover is really a beautiful coffee table book, it’s beautiful , way better than I expected. Not that I had low expectations, I had pretty high expectations and they were exceeded, so that’s awesome.
People can find me at Janicemacleod.com. And that is where my blog is where people can sign up and I just write about whatever. And also, I have writing courses now that I’m teaching because people keep asking me how to write a book, and they asked me a lot about my consistent writing practice. People are very curious about those two things. So, one course I have is book writing, named, it’s How to Write A Book. I know, I know. And the second one is called A Writing Year. And it is every week people get a theme, and a little essay and little open-ended questions, and then they can write in their own journal, and that is really beautiful, because it’s kind of like a very well-crafted blog post for me, it gives me a chance to write beautifully for these people, and it’s really fun to have this community with them.
So I’m doing those writing classes, but I’m also blogging and just trying to get a little more into the writing because it is my true calling, is writing. Art has always been a struggle, but a fun struggle, like the drawing and the painting, has been a little more of an uphill climb, but writing has always been downstream for me. So that’s what I’m focusing on now. But who knows? And I focus on that, I’ll tell you why, because I have a little kid at home and she’s in daycare part-time, so I want to have a life where I’m close and I’m not zipping off to the big city, big lights doing copywriting all the time. Even though now I could do copywriting at home, which I still do, oddly enough, by invitation only people
Carrie: Full circle.
Janice: Full circle, but it is invitational. If you asked me to show up in a meeting in the big city, big lights, you can forget it, it’s not going to happen. So it’s so nice to have those boundaries about copywriting. Because I actually like copywriting too, believe it or not, after all this time. But the short answer is Janicemacleod.com. That’s the answer for all the things.
If you want to check out more about Janice MacLeod, you can check out her website with her offerings here: https://janicemacleod.com/
To watch the full interview, then click here.
